Seeing as how the number of Oregonians killed by a bear or cougar in recent history is somewhere near zero I think the danger is being overblown substantially in here. Since you are essentially in their home, they should not get the death penalty just for scaring you. You're far more likely to get killed on the freeway driving to your hiking spot than you ever are while you are away from your vehicle. 

Maybe I've been misunderstanding this thread so far. I don' t think anybody is concerned about bear or cougar. It's sad that this is even a discussion or soemthing to consider. However rare there are a very few people in our forests with less than honorable intentions.

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“We must go beyond textbooks, go out into the bypaths and untrodden depths of the wilderness and travel and explore and tell the world the glories of our journey.”
~John Hope Franklin

    Woah hold your horses, nobody is talking about shooting an animal jusy because it's there.  Like waffle stomper said, we are really talking about the two-legged creatures.  I have a good friend who worked as a summer forest fire fighter for many years down near Medford.  We go camping together with my other friends occasionally down there and he absolutely refuses to go without a couple firearms.  He has spent wayyyy more time patrolling and exploring the mazes of forest roads down there and he has come across too many meth trailers, stripped cars and other suspricous activity to feel safe unarmed.

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Andy

You are right on the money. I am a park ranger in the summer and a security proff in the winter. I have seen alot of coworkers get more pepper spray on themselves. It is a little tuff to get the person or animal to turn down wind for you.

It's naive to think that there's no chance of getting harrassed out there.  All you have to do is watch the news.  Just last week there was a "crime spree" in the Gorge at several trailheads.  One woman was "sexually molested" while her husband watched helplessly.  It was on all the news reports.  If I'm out in the woods and I see other hikers with packs on, I don't worry about them.  The farther from the TH, and the larger the pack, the less I worry.  But anywhere within a mile of the TH is prime territory for crime.  There were those 2 rangers assasinated in Ecola State Park a few years back and a couple robbed at gun point above Multnomah Falls.  And remember those 2 brothers who were shot in the back by some target shooters on Larch Mt.?  And lately, it seems there's frequently reports of people being murdered at the coast.

It's also inaccurate to say that if you carry a gun you will shoot it.  I know of several hikers who have been carrying for years, and have never once used their gun.  The gun stays in a safe but accessable place and no other hikers ever know about it exept their closest friends.  Carrying guns does not equal being paranoid or trigger happy.  It's just means you're ready if you need it.

I read a Falcon Book that documented a few dozen cougar attacks which made me realize a couple of things:

First, you're not likely to ever know that there's a cougar nearby unless you're being attacked by one.  There's been some exceptions, but usually the first clue a hiker/jogger/etc. has is when a cougar has the victim's head in its mouth.  So you're not likely to ever walk past a cougar who's just lying there soaking up the sun and minding his own business and shoot him just because you're scared.  Either he is a threat or he will make himself invisible and you'll never know he was there.

Secondly, once the attack has begun, there's no negotiating/pleading/reasoning with a cougar.  There's only one means of escape, and that is to kill or maim the animal, meaning someone in the group needs to have a gun or a large knife on hand.  Unfortunately, these same rules often apply to 2-legged attackers.

I've heard a few hikers talk lately about a Nylon gun.  It's supposed to be very light weight.

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

Please name even ONE incident in which an Oregonian out for recreation anywhere in the state  has been attacked and killed by a cougar. 

And if you're going to toss out statements like there's 'frequently reports of people murdered at the coast' , please back it up with some factual incidents or statistics. Murdered in a barfight? A domestic dispute? While camping? Which murders are you talking about.It's bad enough we get this fearmongering from the media every single day. I don't think we need to make it any worse on anecdotal evidence. How about some facts?

There are a number of people reading this from out of state that are probably starting to think you either need to be armed and /or afraid when going into the wild for recreation. And I find from my experiences that nothing could be further from the truth.  

I am neither against gun ownership or the right to have them. I just think this thread is totally overblowing the miniscule statistical threat that we all face out there.

I am not really for the "It will never happen to me" way of thinking. I lived in Springfield when the school shootings happened there and no one would have ever thought that kind of thing would have happened to them. Many things happen in life that you never would have though.....

Wilderness survival 101 be prepared for ANYTHING. If you feel comfortable with nothing, pepper spray, or fire power great at least you have thunked it over a bit.

Can't we all just get along   ;)

Wow, actually I did mention some actual places and incidents.  The ones in the Gorge were on the news just last week.  I was not referring to any bar fights near the coast.  I don't happen to memorize every detail of every murder I hear about anymore than I remember every detail of every hit-n-run I hear on the news, but I watch the news enough to know that they report at least a few every week.  It would be naive of me to say hit-n-runs don't ever happen just because I don't remember the names of every victim.  I can't believe you never heard of the ones in the Gorge last week or the rangers who were shot assasination style at Ecola SP.  Or those 2 guys on Larch Mt. also shot assasination style in the back.

As for cougar, I don't know if anyone in Oregon has been killed, but Oregon isn't the only place people go hiking.  My brother-in-law was being threatened by a cougar at close range, in Oregon, about a year ago.  He shot at it's feet with his rifle as he slowly backed away, but the cougar didn't flinch.  But the gunshots were just enough to hold off the cougar while my brother-in-law was able to get away.  He didn't have to shoot the cougar, but he was glad he had his gun.

I also have a cousin who was attacked by a 4 point buck intent on killing him.  He physically had to wrestle with it, but I don't remember what happened to the buck, but my cousin was injured.  I'll ask about the buck and get back to you.  That was in several newspapers and on TV news.  Maybe you never heard about it, but just because you didn't hear about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And my friend Ron, was recently saved by a friend who dropped a bear with his gun as it was attacking him.  Ron showed me pictures of the dead bear but said it was his friend who shot it.  You probably didn't hear that in the news either because no people were killed.  That happened in Oregon last summer.

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

Then there were those 2 women, I believe they were mother & daughter, who were attacked by a man in a campground near Oak Ridge in August of '06.  I remember the year because we hiked the PCT through Willamette Pass that year.  That was all over the news.

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

Navigator:

  And lately, it seems there's frequently reports of people being murdered at the coast.

You named one incident. Horrible as that incident was, it does not meet the definition of the word "frequently" in any manner unless maybe you're Bill O'Reilly or whomever his counterpart on the other side is.. I think on a topic that is pretty controversial to begin with that you need to be very careful throwing out statements like the one you made above without looking up the actual incidents and statistics. 

I pay pretty close attention to the news and I'm aware of every incident you mentioned. There have been NO frequent reports of people being murdered at the coast (unless you count multiple reports of the one incident as frequent). From everything I've seen and heard, it's just not true. 

I forgot to mention the rash of rapes at Bagby Hot Springs that was in the news a few years back.

If we could all just get along, no one would need a gun.  What a great thought.

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

I think by now I've mentioned several incidents throughout Oregon, not just the coast.  I don't know how this thread got to be about only whether or not you should carry a gun to the coast.  I thought it was about whether to carry a gun in general, and more specifically, what kind.  I don't remember every incident at the coast, but I do remember another one that was in the news a lot.  There was a married couple murdered by a guy (total stranger, not domestic fight) while walking near the beach.  The perp said he did it just because he wanted to see what it would be like to kill someone.

Perhaps we do have a disagreement on the definition of frequent.  Perhaps you think it should be once a week in order to qualify as frequent, whereas I think about once a year or so is more than enough to consider it frequent.  At least frequent enough to take precautions.  Everyone out there isn't a murderer or rapist, but since we don't know which ones, it's best to be prepared.  I don't expect to ever get attacked by a cougar, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.  I hope we never need to use the fire insurance we have on our house, but carrying it doesn't make us paranoid.

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/cougar/attacks.html

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And the Lord said, "Escape to the mountains." Gen. 19:17.

Hmmm.  Funny, I watch the news every day and haven't seen a single report of people being murdered on the coast, and certainly not on hiking trails.  The recent crimes in the gorge all happened at night and not on trails, but at popular visiting spots in the gorge.  You're more likely to get killed on the way to the trail in your car or have your car broken into on the trail than anything else.  And guess what?  If guns weren't allowed, then you wouldn't have to worry about any  2-legged creatures harming you on the trail or anywhere else.  Gosh; it's good pretty bad when even something as peaceful and natural as enjoying nature is been taken over by talk of firearms and killling people. 

In the interest of preventing a full-scale political war I'm going to let Mary Ann have the last word in this discussion.   I've locked the thread.  Thanks to everyone for a enlightened conversation to this point...but obviously we aren't going to solve the gun rights issue here so I thought it best to stop it at that point.

I'm happy to reply to any comments you have if you email me here: jeffstatt@hotmail.com

 

Thanks!

Your bonefide policital agnostic,
Jeff

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Jeff - Site Admin

Someday you'll take me home to live forever....up on the mountain
S. Chapman