I'm looking at REI's upcoming sale and noticed Black Diamond crampons (Strap Contact) and ice axe (Raven) at good prices. I've never used these pieces of gear, and I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to have them. I figure I'd need them if I ever want to summit Hood or Adams? What else do people use theirs for? I'm not a climber and don't figure to be so these would just be for hiking. Trying to weight whether it's worth it. Thanks.

All BD gear I have seen is top quality, so if you have reason to own an axe and crampons, they would be good choices However, both are technical items and their proper uses require some knowledge. Specifically, under most conditions crampons are useful an axe is needed, and the use of the axe is best learned initially with a tutor under safe conditions.

Neither of the items on sale are particularly good for hanging on a pack because you might need them on an exploratory trip--lighter models are available. If you know you are gong to need them on a trip, you had best be practiced in advance, or have a formal or informal guide along to both make judgements and provide training.

Having an axe and crampons may not change your plans much. For example, I have a very light aluminum axe should I want to carry an axe for an interesting trip of the correct sort; I have had the axe for over a decade; during the period I have been on a number of trips where I decided the probability of needing it was low but not zero, and so left it home; and never has the lack of an axe done anything other than lighten my pack! If I had bought a replacement superlight axe in the last few years, it would have been a different and more versatile model, capable of more extreme uses. But it still would not have been with me as yet, nor would its ownership have changed my activities.

I suspect you are better off renting until you figure out what kind and length of axe you want, and what sorts of crampons best fit your uses. Certainly renting is a less expensive choice for only doing a couple of summits.

Steve

Yes, you need ice axe and crampons to do Mt.Hood and Mt. Adams.  Steep ice.  Crampons keep you from slipping.  Primarily, the ice axe allows you to self arrest if you fall.

I agree with Steve, you need to do some training before climbing.  The Mazamas have a good course.  You should at least go with someone who knows how to do it and practice some falls and then self arresting. 

It's never a bad idea to own a piece of safety equipment like an ice axe.  As to learning how to use it all it takes is a little practice on a 20ft moderate snow slope.  Do you need to take a course?  Well that depends on the level of exposure you expect to find on your hikes.  If you just stick to regular trails that may have a late summer snowfield (like this year) an ice axe can come in handy.  However there are more advanced uses for ice axes that require proper training.

Crampons, since they are used exclusively on ice (or hard packed snow) on the other hand mean you are committing to more risk.  The two are not to be used together (use trekking poles to get 4 points of contact).  You don't need a course to learn about crampons but if you should if you are planning to more advanced adventures.

Mt. Adams is a fairly safe hike (South Climb) since it doesn't have that much in the way of exposure.  While crampons are handy to get up to Pikers Peak - they require you to start your climb at dawn - the climb can be done without them (not as fun) by waiting until later in the day.  The glissade track is deep and as long as you can control the speed of your descent (using your ice ixe like a rudder) you should be fine (never where crampons while glissading!)

Mt. Hood on the other hand has a lot more exposure, crevasses and other hazards that require ropes and a lot more experience.

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I've used BD gear for years and its generally good stuff - particularly at REI sale prices.

Not a bad idea to have such safety equipment if you plan to venture into areas where the snow is steeper or slicker and there aren't solid tracks/steps to follow.  But, as others have already suggested, get some training first - just having more technology doesn't automatically equate to more safety.

Crampons aren't hard to use with two caveats: (1) make sure they fit your boots and (depending on what boot you're using) will stay on as the boot flexes, (2) practice walking in them so that you learn not to hook your pant leg with the side spike and flip yourself head-over-heels (and probably off down the slope), and (3) NEVER glissade with crampons on - you'll instinctively try to stop by digging in your heels which will likely cause you to flip and may even break your leg (I saw this happen once in the Sierras).

A true self-arrest on hard snow or ice with an ice axe is a learned skill - you need to be able to arrest right away, before you build-up too much speed.  Once you get going, the ice axe tip will either skate or could snag, with the axe then getting ripped out of your hands.  Consider learning the self-belay - where you practice stopping the slide before it even starts.

Excellent advice VanMarmot!  I agree with all of it.  Both use of an ice axe and crampons are skills that come with experience, and training.  Taking a class from the Mazamas and then practicing on a few easy hikes on your own is a great way to start.  There are special pit-falls with this equipment, including the dreaded pant-snag with the crampons.  And there are some things you won't know if you just do it on your own...such as it is a good idea to always keep the ice-axe in the up-slope hand, etc... (as well as what length ice axe you need for your particular adventure). 

One of my implied points above was that if the main use of the axe and/or crampons is to be in the pack just in case of possible usefulness, those BD items are just plain too heavy. If average weight crampons and axe suffice and are to be used on only a couple of climbs, renting is cheaper than buying.

An axe and crampons are not "safety gear" in the usual sense. Carrying them when they are not needed exposes one's self and one's companions to risk through punctures. Accidents are never planned, and having sharp exposed points along ups the possibilities inordinately.

On the other hand, an axe is convenient when you have to confront and chase off a marauding bear...

Steve

i bought  some bd contact strap crampons and they seem to work pretty good and serve the purpose well.we went to silver star a while back and they were great for the hard packed snow at lower levels.it was alot better than going snowshoes all the way.they are easy to put on and stay put pretty well.i bought them for adams climb this season.i carry them just for the sake of having them..............bobby

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Bobby Brenneman-IT'S COOL TO REACH IT BY FOOT...RATHER BY CAR.

An ice axe can also have other uses! Actually, the rather creative description of this particular item came about because it's too lightweight to meet the requirements for an ice axe. It can be used for self-arrest but is not stout enough for cutting steps in ice.

I agree that you will find it far more economical to rent instead of buy climbing gear unless you expect to do a lot of snow and ice climbing. Please, also, get the proper training. Both gizmos can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. In my mountaineering first aid course we were taught that the ice axe is the most common source of sucking chest wounds. At least rent for a while and wait for next year's sale so that you know what you really need.

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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey

I appreciate all the responses.  I wouldn't take any equipment out without knowing how to use it, particularly not when it has sharp spikes on it, but the warnings are well taken!  I guess I was figuring that at least with the axe, if I am going to get in enough practice to really know what I'm doing, I'd be renting multiple times anyway, to the point where buying might just make more sense.  What are some good spots for practicing self-arrest?  How much time practicing is really required to get the hang of it - a day of practice, or multiple times over the course of a couple months so it gets to be instinctual?  I guess I assumed the latter, since your instinct better be right if you start to slide on a steep ridge - so I figured that renting wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

As part of the Mazama climbing school we found some steep slopes around Timberline Lodge.  There was just one day of practice, then a Mount Hood climb.

Another trick is how not to step on the rope with your crampons.

Have several people on a rope, one person falls, and the other people self arrest to stop the faller.

You need a steep slope that's shallow at the bottom to avoid any risk.  And it has to be icy.  During a sunny day it can be pretty soft which becomes too easy to stop. 

To clarify what I said earlier about ice axes...

The inexpensive light weight ice axes that are intended for hikers are only useful for self arrest in ideal conditions, namely wet heavy snow that you typically get in late spring/early summer.  I assumed from your post that this is what you had in mind.  If you want to get into mountaineering then by all means take a course and learn all about it. 

I had someone experienced show me how to do it the first time.  Then I went out & practiced a couple times until I felt I had the knack of it.  (I'm only 145lbs so self arrest has been pretty easy for me to do - I've heard it's not the case with heavier individuals). 

In the end it's about risk.  You probably have crossed many a snowfield already - proper use of an ice axe can minimize the risk of injury if you fall.  Regardless - if there is serious exposure involded - I won't cross it anyway because I'm a hiker - not a mountaineer.  If it's icy (I can't kick steps in it) I won't cross it because I know I won't be able to self arrest.

Bottom line: I don't think you will regret buying one.  Stick to what you know, take baby steps with regards to risk and stay within your comfort level.

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One more thought on the crampon issue.  There are times on an early season hike when you might have to cross a short patch of snow, which may be slick or icy.  If it's on steep terrain, this short section may be the least safe part of your entire hike - but it looks short and you're tempted to go for it, so ... Ooops!

I got a pair of MicroSpikes (http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.html) which are less than real crampons but more than YakTrax, to improve my odds in these situations.